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April 21, 2009


Stout Viking

No wonder Muslim countries are so backwards: Their family tree branches are all tangled!! And now they want to import their deformities into the west...


Viking- it's not that their family tree branches are tangled, it's that their family trees look like a telephone pole.

The Teuton

I think that we should continue to allow these marriages to take place as a lesser of two evils because, otherwise, these Asiatic people will start to breed with the indigenous Teutonic and Celtic races of Great Britain. Miscegenation is by far the more serious issue. My conscience will remain clear if another generation of Pakistanis are born with physical defects.

Stout Viking

Teuton, I understand that you're a white supremacist. Well, let me tell you something "new": It never bothered them before to screw "Aryan" women.
However, they're less likely to marry these women and have kids with them because they're permiscuous in their view and only good for one thing.

What will happen if they won't be allowed to marry their cousins in Europe, is that they will resort to either stop marrying cousins or RETURN TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM in order to do so.

(Pshh, and you portray yourself as some kind of übermensch? Try mastering simple logic first, genious).


In kurdistan there are four siblings walking on all four, unable to walk on two legs! So let them breed with their own kind. The easier it will be to deal with them later. The dumber they becomes, it's only to our advantage.


Cousinage marriage is really important in societies that devalue women. In order for a family to assure the health, wellbeing and sometimes survival of daughters it is best to marry them within the family where their fathers have power within the family group. First you have to raise the value and rights of women, and the problem will correct itself.


I think you have made a good and valid point, but I'd make two points in reply about Muslim communities:
1. Given the (relative) prevalence of so-called "honour killings" how sure are you that most/all Muslim Dads really care about their daughters "health, wellbeing and ... survival"?
2. "rais[ing] the value and rights of women" is anti-Islamic, since the subjugation of women is enshrined in Sharia Law. So, what chance there?
3. A further more general point: given the dowry concept, cousinage also keeps wealth within the family - and I fear that that is a more important element than any factor of the girl's wellbeing etc.

May I also say that I was going to make a 'funny' about this, but your point struck me so powerfully that I felt a serious reply was in order.


Cousinage marriage was very frequent in Europe before the 20th century. Usually marriage between 1st cousins occurred in the aristocracy and nobility to consolidate land and wealth. The Rothchilds and royality are examples of this. Money is certainly also an issue in Muslim cousin marriage. As you probably are aware, most Muslims in the third world still live in tribal societies where distrust of other tribes and anyone outside the village except family is fierce. Even though the status of women is very low, families still love their daughters and do not want to see them misused. If they marry out of the family and issues arise, it could cause larger issues within the community. It is best to just marry the people who are part of your group.

Your point about honor killings is a good one. It would be interesting to do a study to see if most honor killings are of daughters or of wives who have left their natal family. I think if you looked at India, you would see that it is mostly unprotected wives.


We clearly agree my #3 point.
Does your lack of response indicate you also agree with #2?
With regard to my #1:
A very quick 'straw poll' of news stories would suggest an approx 50-50 split in the UK between fathers/brothers on one hand and husbands (who may or may not be 'family' in the context you meant)on the other and I suggest this is more relevent in UK than events in India/Pakistan.
I would not doubt what you say about the Indian sub-continent. (I assume that was what you meant by 'India').
I can think of no "crime" or "dishonour" my own daughter could commit that would lead me to kill her, but then I'm a Western European.
Thus I think that question stands.


Cousinage marriage is not an issue of Sharia law. It is rather a matter of custom. It is ingrained in the culture, and the more unenlightened the culture the more frequently it will occur. Sharia law exacerbates the situation because women have no right to object.

I think you are asking me if Sharia law leads to a lack of paternal affection for daughters. My own experience with Arab and Muslim families in the U.S. it that these people love their children as much a Christians and Jews. On the other hand, I have read books about families in Muslims countries where daughters are treated no better than domestic cattle. For the most part, they are very destitute families where life is a such a struggle that they cannot allow attachment to their children to interfere with their survival. In these cases, sons are not treated much better than girls. They too are beaten and see their mothers beaten and the cycle continues.

I feel for your plight in G.B. I hope that my government wakes up soon and realises that they must stop the immigration of Muslims before we begin to have the problems you face. I fear that this will not come to pass with our current president and we will soon have all your problems.


you are quite right about Cousinage marriage not being a matter of Sharia law - I never said that it was.

Neither was I asking you "if Sharia law leads to a lack of paternal affection for daughters."
I was simply pointing out that Sharia Law enshrines a subordinated legal position for Women, (just as the Koran enshrines a subordinated spiritual one).
The Sunna also makes it clear that a Woman has a subordinated social position too.
None of those facts (of themselves) automatically lead to less affection from fathers to daughters (though it may still make said fathers regard said daughters as "inferior" to their sons).
Given that Islam unambiguously affords women second-class status, your suggestion: "First you have to raise the value and rights of women ..." is simply un-Islamic (at least to most major schools of Islamic Jurisprudence).

Now, I do agree that more "progressive" Moslems (e.g. those living under the Benevolence of Uncle Sam), or those that are exposed to more liberal (and rational) thought, may well find themselves ceasing to believe that their women-folk are "inferior".
However, such Moslems can hardly be called "orthodox" - no matter how devout they may be.
(A major problem we in UK have is that most of the Imams for the Mosques here are Saudi trained.
This means they follow the Salafi/Wahabi schools - which are anything but tolerant or progressive.)

honour killings and cousin marriages have NOTHING to do with Islam... it is a cultural phenomenon, unique to certain tribes/families/sects/communities. The amount of ignorance in the world is sickening.

infidel and proud of it

Dont forget that it has been proven that the older the male is, the more chances of them fathering an abnormal child, and in their cultures they often marry 10 year old girls off to 60 year old men, so this would explain their violent and backwards ways, years of inbreeding and peodophile marriges have created a whole type of inperfect mutated peoples.


Research for BBC2′s Newsnight in November 2005 showed British Pakistanis accounted for 3.4 per cent of all births but have 30 per cent of all British children with recessive disorders.

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